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	<title>Commentaires sur : ThatCamp Paris !</title>
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	<description>Non-conférence sur les Digital humanities (Paris, EHESS, 18 et 19 mai 2010)</description>
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		<title>Par : ThatCamp Paris ! non-conférence sur les Digital humanities &#124; web-1.org</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-505</link>
		<dc:creator>ThatCamp Paris ! non-conférence sur les Digital humanities &#124; web-1.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2010 13:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] : http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris       Edition électroniquedigital humanities, edition électronique   &#8592; Media-lab : [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] : <a href="http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris" rel="nofollow">http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris</a>       Edition électroniquedigital humanities, edition électronique   &larr; Media-lab : [...]</p>
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		<title>Par : Domenico Fiormonte</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-454</link>
		<dc:creator>Domenico Fiormonte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tcp.hypotheses.org/?page_id=85#comment-454</guid>
		<description>Thanks both Marin and Serge for this response, and apologies for this *very* late reply, I really did not expect any! :)
Marin: it would be great to meet and exchange ideas. To answer your question, there were several attempts in the past to build a more stable connection between the romance languages DH communities, but eventually they failed. One of these attempts were the CLiP conferences series: http://www.cch.kcl.ac.uk/clip2006/. Ironically, the French partners were supposed to organize the next meeting in 2007, and eventually they stood up… 
I am a fan of Claire Blanche Benveniste idea that the only possibility for romance languages to survive is to “federate” them, i.e. by creating a common linguistic, educational and scholarly background. I am not suggesting here that we must “save” our languages. Serge: the reason why I wrote a note on this blog is not to complain that British and Americans do not read our important research. In fact the problem is not that we deserve to be more influential (or dream of a reverse intellectual colonization), but to build and claim respect for linguistic and cultural differences. I don’t know if you had a chance to see the programme of our June conference “Canoni liquidi”  (http://www.digitalvariants.org/news): variation is the *conditio sine qua non* for the transmission of culture, and according to biology for the life itself. 
As Lotman writes, not everything can be translated from one culture to another. And sometimes variation is a necessary curse. So I don’t think that the Informatica Umanistica community, which was after all fairly known outside Italy in the last twenty years, was a “sect”. It was a lively national community that inspired the work of many Italian and foreign scholars. We did what we could, and of course in some cases we could have done it better. Dissemination was certainly one of the shortcomings. Nonetheless, we expressed in our language, and with our (perhaps limited) intellectual tools a “cultural vision” of what we thought humanities computing was and could be. Informatica Umanistica was important also as a term, and contributed to create a sense of scholarly identity. 
However, today the question is not just to defend or preserve our “local” tradition and history. I am talking about everyday socio-technological problems: for example how to reduce the cultural and linguistic bias of search engines, or to design interfaces, tools and computing languages that can be understood and used by “minorities”, underprivileged and less-skilled people (that is, most of the world). My typical questions are: what do words like “standard” and “international” mean in our field? Is marking-up an Italian Medieval manuscript the same of tagging a coeval English resource? How do we respond to the challenges of Google Books? And are we sure that languages and related human cultures are irrelevant to these profound knowledge-shaping processes?
In trying to find an answer to these questions, I believe it becomes clear that the solution to those problems is not to write web pages in English (although in some cases, I admit, it might be helpful!). 
Domenico
p.s. Serge, thanks for your generous words on our book. I am so glad to hear that you’re organizing THATCamp in Florence, and I really look forward to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks both Marin and Serge for this response, and apologies for this *very* late reply, I really did not expect any! <img src='http://tcp.hypotheses.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Marin: it would be great to meet and exchange ideas. To answer your question, there were several attempts in the past to build a more stable connection between the romance languages DH communities, but eventually they failed. One of these attempts were the CLiP conferences series: <a href="http://www.cch.kcl.ac.uk/clip2006/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cch.kcl.ac.uk/clip2006/</a>. Ironically, the French partners were supposed to organize the next meeting in 2007, and eventually they stood up…<br />
I am a fan of Claire Blanche Benveniste idea that the only possibility for romance languages to survive is to “federate” them, i.e. by creating a common linguistic, educational and scholarly background. I am not suggesting here that we must “save” our languages. Serge: the reason why I wrote a note on this blog is not to complain that British and Americans do not read our important research. In fact the problem is not that we deserve to be more influential (or dream of a reverse intellectual colonization), but to build and claim respect for linguistic and cultural differences. I don’t know if you had a chance to see the programme of our June conference “Canoni liquidi”  (<a href="http://www.digitalvariants.org/news" rel="nofollow">http://www.digitalvariants.org/news</a>): variation is the *conditio sine qua non* for the transmission of culture, and according to biology for the life itself.<br />
As Lotman writes, not everything can be translated from one culture to another. And sometimes variation is a necessary curse. So I don’t think that the Informatica Umanistica community, which was after all fairly known outside Italy in the last twenty years, was a “sect”. It was a lively national community that inspired the work of many Italian and foreign scholars. We did what we could, and of course in some cases we could have done it better. Dissemination was certainly one of the shortcomings. Nonetheless, we expressed in our language, and with our (perhaps limited) intellectual tools a “cultural vision” of what we thought humanities computing was and could be. Informatica Umanistica was important also as a term, and contributed to create a sense of scholarly identity.<br />
However, today the question is not just to defend or preserve our “local” tradition and history. I am talking about everyday socio-technological problems: for example how to reduce the cultural and linguistic bias of search engines, or to design interfaces, tools and computing languages that can be understood and used by “minorities”, underprivileged and less-skilled people (that is, most of the world). My typical questions are: what do words like “standard” and “international” mean in our field? Is marking-up an Italian Medieval manuscript the same of tagging a coeval English resource? How do we respond to the challenges of Google Books? And are we sure that languages and related human cultures are irrelevant to these profound knowledge-shaping processes?<br />
In trying to find an answer to these questions, I believe it becomes clear that the solution to those problems is not to write web pages in English (although in some cases, I admit, it might be helpful!).<br />
Domenico<br />
p.s. Serge, thanks for your generous words on our book. I am so glad to hear that you’re organizing THATCamp in Florence, and I really look forward to it.</p>
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		<title>Par : serge noiret</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-276</link>
		<dc:creator>serge noiret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Il libro di Fiormonte con Teresa Numerico e Francesca Tommasi è un bellissimo manuale introduttivo alla materia che, per la prima volta mi sembra in una tale pubblicazione in Italia, usa il concetto di \umanista-umanistica digitale\ che permette una percezione pluridisciplinare ed integrativa della materia che, prima, con Informatica Umanistica era soprattutto esclusiva e più legata ad una setta di adetti.

Spero che avremo modo di organizzare un tale incontro \continentale europeo\ di DH all&#039;Istituto Universitario Europeo per THATcamp Firenze nel marzo 2011 (23-25) e di confrontare anche lì le piattaforme epistemologiche e definitorie. 

I agree with Domenico Fiormonte that often we look at the Anglo-Saxon model because they are extremely good in the discipline but also because they are pretty much able to promote themselves using the unique world language: English ! 

Often, in continental Europe from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean, many things are being invented in the digital world.

En fait c&#039;est la frontière du langage qui empêche de découvrir les pratiques et les réalisations \nationales\. En voulant provoquer on pourrait dire que pour approcher la longue tradition italienne de réflexion et d&#039;institutionnalisation de ce qu&#039;est l&#039;Informatica Umanistica, il vaudrait mieux que toutes les pages web italiennes qui en parlent soient rédigées en anglais....

Sur Google on pourrait ainsi taper \Digital Humanities\ et, peut-être qu&#039;on trouverait ainsi aussi une page d&#039;Informatica Umanistica ou d&#039;Humanités Numériques... 

Essayez- aujourd&#039;hui de le faire pour comprendre pourquoi seul l&#039;espace scientifique US/UK (et conférences internationales en anglais) existent dans le domaine....

Vous avec dit Informatica Umanista ou Humanités Numériques, bizarre.. vous avez dit bizarre ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Il libro di Fiormonte con Teresa Numerico e Francesca Tommasi è un bellissimo manuale introduttivo alla materia che, per la prima volta mi sembra in una tale pubblicazione in Italia, usa il concetto di \umanista-umanistica digitale\ che permette una percezione pluridisciplinare ed integrativa della materia che, prima, con Informatica Umanistica era soprattutto esclusiva e più legata ad una setta di adetti.</p>
<p>Spero che avremo modo di organizzare un tale incontro \continentale europeo\ di DH all&#8217;Istituto Universitario Europeo per THATcamp Firenze nel marzo 2011 (23-25) e di confrontare anche lì le piattaforme epistemologiche e definitorie. </p>
<p>I agree with Domenico Fiormonte that often we look at the Anglo-Saxon model because they are extremely good in the discipline but also because they are pretty much able to promote themselves using the unique world language: English ! </p>
<p>Often, in continental Europe from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean, many things are being invented in the digital world.</p>
<p>En fait c&#8217;est la frontière du langage qui empêche de découvrir les pratiques et les réalisations \nationales\. En voulant provoquer on pourrait dire que pour approcher la longue tradition italienne de réflexion et d&#8217;institutionnalisation de ce qu&#8217;est l&#8217;Informatica Umanistica, il vaudrait mieux que toutes les pages web italiennes qui en parlent soient rédigées en anglais&#8230;.</p>
<p>Sur Google on pourrait ainsi taper \Digital Humanities\ et, peut-être qu&#8217;on trouverait ainsi aussi une page d&#8217;Informatica Umanistica ou d&#8217;Humanités Numériques&#8230; </p>
<p>Essayez- aujourd&#8217;hui de le faire pour comprendre pourquoi seul l&#8217;espace scientifique US/UK (et conférences internationales en anglais) existent dans le domaine&#8230;.</p>
<p>Vous avec dit Informatica Umanista ou Humanités Numériques, bizarre.. vous avez dit bizarre ?</p>
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		<title>Par : Marin Dacos</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>Marin Dacos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 06:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for your important comment. I totally agree with you.

I read come Italian and will look to your book with pleasure.

How could we build a strong european communication, between French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. people? Would you be interested in a call for an european coordination and cooperation in DH? It seems possible. We should meet each other and talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your important comment. I totally agree with you.</p>
<p>I read come Italian and will look to your book with pleasure.</p>
<p>How could we build a strong european communication, between French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. people? Would you be interested in a call for an european coordination and cooperation in DH? It seems possible. We should meet each other and talk.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Par : Domenico Fiormonte</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>Domenico Fiormonte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;La communauté des Digital humanities émerge de plus en plus nettement, en particulier en Angleterre et aux USA. Nous, français et européens du continent, sommes invités par les américains à nous positionner, à participer au développement de la discipline.&quot;

This is somewhat an underestimation (and perhaps misrepresentation) of the history of Digital Humanities /Humanities Computing in Europe. Many founding figures, like Father Busa, came from continental Europe. The situation in Germany, Spain, Italy, etc. is very lively. A Spanish university (Castilla-La Mancha) launched in 2007 a Master programme in Humanidades Digitales, and in Italy there are several graduate and postgraduate programmes in Informatica Umanistica. Not the same happens either in US and UK, only the King&#039;s College offers a postgraduate degress in Digital Humanities. In US there are many DH centers, but not so many teaching programmes. So, I think THATCamp is a very important and timely initiative, but a genuine pan-european approach needs that we begin talking to each other, instead of always referring to the anglo-american model. 
If you have time (and read some Italian) have a look at this Appendix to our book L&#039;umanista digitale:
http://infolet.it/files/2010/01/appendice.pdf

All the best

Domenico Fiormonte</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;La communauté des Digital humanities émerge de plus en plus nettement, en particulier en Angleterre et aux USA. Nous, français et européens du continent, sommes invités par les américains à nous positionner, à participer au développement de la discipline.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is somewhat an underestimation (and perhaps misrepresentation) of the history of Digital Humanities /Humanities Computing in Europe. Many founding figures, like Father Busa, came from continental Europe. The situation in Germany, Spain, Italy, etc. is very lively. A Spanish university (Castilla-La Mancha) launched in 2007 a Master programme in Humanidades Digitales, and in Italy there are several graduate and postgraduate programmes in Informatica Umanistica. Not the same happens either in US and UK, only the King&#8217;s College offers a postgraduate degress in Digital Humanities. In US there are many DH centers, but not so many teaching programmes. So, I think THATCamp is a very important and timely initiative, but a genuine pan-european approach needs that we begin talking to each other, instead of always referring to the anglo-american model.<br />
If you have time (and read some Italian) have a look at this Appendix to our book L&#8217;umanista digitale:<br />
<a href="http://infolet.it/files/2010/01/appendice.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://infolet.it/files/2010/01/appendice.pdf</a></p>
<p>All the best</p>
<p>Domenico Fiormonte</p>
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		<title>Par : Numérique et précaires de l&#8217;euhèssaire &#124; Sur un son rap</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Numérique et précaires de l&#8217;euhèssaire &#124; Sur un son rap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 22:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tcp.hypotheses.org/?page_id=85#comment-90</guid>
		<description>[...] dernier est touché dans ses fondements mêmes par le numérique » expliquent les initiateurs de la manifestation [&#8617;]malgré le prêt inter-bibliothèque&#8230; [&#8617;]grâce à des associations telles que [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] dernier est touché dans ses fondements mêmes par le numérique » expliquent les initiateurs de la manifestation [&#8617;]malgré le prêt inter-bibliothèque&#8230; [&#8617;]grâce à des associations telles que [...]</p>
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		<title>Par : THATCamp Paris 18 et 19 mai 2010. Non-conférence sur les Digital humanities = THATCamp Paris 2010. User-generated &#8220;unconference&#8221; on Digital humanities &#124; Les carnets de la phonothèque</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>THATCamp Paris 18 et 19 mai 2010. Non-conférence sur les Digital humanities = THATCamp Paris 2010. User-generated &#8220;unconference&#8221; on Digital humanities &#124; Les carnets de la phonothèque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 14:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Paris est une non-conférence sur les Digital humanities. La première en France. Elle se tiendra à Paris les 18 et 19 mai [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Paris est une non-conférence sur les Digital humanities. La première en France. Elle se tiendra à Paris les 18 et 19 mai [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Par : THATCamp Paris 2010 : Frédéric Clavert</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>THATCamp Paris 2010 : Frédéric Clavert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 11:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tcp.hypotheses.org/?page_id=85#comment-73</guid>
		<description>[...] ici. Le texte &#171;&#160;fondamental&#160;&#187; de l&#8217;événement est disponible en Français et en Anglais, je vous invite à le [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ici. Le texte &laquo;&nbsp;fondamental&nbsp;&raquo; de l&#8217;événement est disponible en Français et en Anglais, je vous invite à le [...]</p>
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		<title>Par : Maignien Yannick</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Maignien Yannick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 07:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Avec toutes mes excuses : Il faut lire : &quot;M&#039;étant demandé en quoi le TGE Adonis s&#039;inscrivait en tant que réalisation d&#039;infrastructure numérique, j&#039;avais eu l&#039;occasion d&#039;écrire sur ce point&#039;...
excuses syntaxiques Yannick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Avec toutes mes excuses : Il faut lire : &#8220;M&#8217;étant demandé en quoi le TGE Adonis s&#8217;inscrivait en tant que réalisation d&#8217;infrastructure numérique, j&#8217;avais eu l&#8217;occasion d&#8217;écrire sur ce point&#8217;&#8230;<br />
excuses syntaxiques Yannick</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Par : Maignien Yannick</title>
		<link>http://tcp.hypotheses.org/thatcamp-paris/comment-page-1#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Maignien Yannick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 07:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Néanmoins, nous défendons une définition plus large des Digital Humanities – expression dont une traduction  en Français reste à trouver -, peut-être également plus ambitieuse.&quot; Ecrivez-vous. Et vous avez parfaitement raison.
M&#039;étant demandé en quoi le Tge Adonis s&#039;inscrivait la réalisation d&#039;infrastructure numérique scientifique, avait eu l&#039;occasion d&#039;écrire un texte sur ce point : Les nouvelles frontières numériques des sciences / Science’s new digital frontier,   en accès sur http://www.tge-adonis.fr/?Les-nouvelles-frontieres

Amitiés  et bon travail pour thatcamp-paris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Néanmoins, nous défendons une définition plus large des Digital Humanities – expression dont une traduction  en Français reste à trouver -, peut-être également plus ambitieuse.&#8221; Ecrivez-vous. Et vous avez parfaitement raison.<br />
M&#8217;étant demandé en quoi le Tge Adonis s&#8217;inscrivait la réalisation d&#8217;infrastructure numérique scientifique, avait eu l&#8217;occasion d&#8217;écrire un texte sur ce point : Les nouvelles frontières numériques des sciences / Science’s new digital frontier,   en accès sur <a href="http://www.tge-adonis.fr/?Les-nouvelles-frontieres" rel="nofollow">http://www.tge-adonis.fr/?Les-nouvelles-frontieres</a></p>
<p>Amitiés  et bon travail pour thatcamp-paris</p>
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